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Interview: Les Evans
Cryptic Slaughter, the quintessential 1980s thrash band, where thrash means crossover music of a simple and effective nature. their music, of short bursts of song with explosive drumming and ragged punkish speedcore riffs, projected a forerunner archetype of what grindcore would soon be. Albums like "convicted" and "money talks" displayed the formative techniques of death metal. But even independent of its historical role, this music crushes with its efficiency and organic texture. Les Evans, guitarist of Cryptic Slaughter, was kind enough to answer some questions for us via email. working on this interview has been one of the high points of the experience of writing about metal, and it is a privilege to interact with a founding mind of a band such as Cryptic Slaughter.
do you think a generational difference exists between bands, in terms of how the thinking that inspires them to make their music changes?
Sure, and every generation thinks that theirs is the most relevant! Your immediate surroundings, differing time frames included, will always impact your creative output. But music crosses generational, race, and class divisions. So even bands from different eras maintain a common thread. I'm just happy that there are still "thinking" bands out there.
how was music composed in cryptic slaughter?
Generally, we wrote songs individually, after which we would present the rough sketches to the rest of the band. We would then tweak arrangements and embellish. Lyrics usually weren't written until the music was finished. A rare exception was Lowlife. Scott came up with that opening drum riff out of the blue, and I wrote the accompanying guitar part right on the spot. I can't remember if the rest of the song had already been written or not.
do you conceive of songs as rhythms, or riff patterns, or abstract ideas or melodies? what has been for you normally the genesis of songwriting?
This will be difficult to put into words. I can't say that I really have a conscious formula. Usually it's the melody first, then the rythym. Sometimes I'll hear music in my head and then try to translate it into something tangible. Or I'll just play around loosely with the guitar. If something promising comes up, I immediately record it and then attempt all manner of variations on the pattern or riff to see which sounds the best to me. After I come up with something I'm happy with, I'll put it aside for a few days and then listen to it again. If I still like it upon the second listen, it's a keeper. When Jimi Hendrix was asked a question similar to yours, he replied that he was like an antenna, or an open channel through which ideas were allowed to flow. In other words, his songs came from somewhere else. And while I would never, ever, try to compare myself to Hendrix, I do understand what he meant. Occasionally, I'll write music and suddenly, it's like it's not me playing. Almost as if I'm outside of myself as an oserver. There's a great mystery behind art.
rap (and the synth music that inspired it) seems to be digital- technology-dependent, where other forms of music are less so. how does this affect the viewpoints of the artists?
I embrace the technological advances, but I do believe that any artist that relies too heavily on technology runs the risk of having his music sound like it was written and performed by a computer. But then again, that's exactly what some bands are after. They want it to sound as cold and inorganic as possible because it evokes a very sinister feel. Whatever yanks your crank.
of all the thrash guitarists, your work was seemingly the most unabashedly punk in raw dynamics while having a metallish sense of arrangement. in what ways did each genre influence your songwriting?
When I was a kid, I was metal to the core. I turned on to hardcore right when Cryptic was first coming together. Back then, those styles of music were so underground that I automatically gravitated towards anything new I could get my hands on. And I was influenced by everything that was fast and raw. We wanted to do something different to stand out from the crowd. The ultra-speed stuff kind of just evolved without any direct intent. But as we got faster and faster, it definitely necessitated a change in the way I was playing. So what eventually developed as my style was never pre-meditated.
what bands inspired you when you were starting out, pre- and post-convicted?
Before Cryptic formed, the most important bands to me were Slayer, Metallica, Venom, and Motörhead. Then I started listening to GBH, RKL, Suicidal Tendencies, Discharge, and Minor Threat. I had friends in high school who were into punk, so we would borrow each others records. I think they really wanted to convert me, and I guess it worked. Before Convicted was even recorded, we had taken a definite turn towards hardcore. The earlier songs on that record, Rest in Pain, War to the Knife, & Rage to Kill, were more metal. Whereas M.A.D., State Control, & Nation of Hate reflected our new direction, lyrically as well as musically.
do you think the metal genre has been obsoleted?
I don't think any musical genre can be considered obsolete if there is still an active fan base. It's almost impossible to be original anymore because it seems like everything has been done to death. So hats off to the modern pioneers like Strapping Young Lad, who have brought something new and distinct to the scene.
i could find no reference to cryptic slaughter demos anywhere on the web (the net is often useless). were there any and if so, can you give a brief demography?
There was only one, recorded in May, 1985 entitled "Life in Grave". Five songs, two of which (R.I.P & War) we re-recorded for Convicted. It was much more metal influenced.
"Before us there is certainly left only nothing; but that which struggles against this flowing away into nothing, namely our nature, is indeed just the will-to-live which we ourselves are, just as it is our world. That we abhor nothingness so much is simply another way of saying that we will life so much, and that we are nothing but this will and know nothing but it alone. But we now turn our glance from our own needy and perplexed nature to those who have over-come the world, in whom the will, having reached complete self-knowledge, has found itself again in everything, and then freely denied itself, and who then merely wait to see the last trace of the will vanish with the body that is animated by that trace. Then, instead of the restless pressure and effort; instead of the constant transition from desire to apprehension and from joy to sorrow; instead of the never-satisfied and never-dying hope that constitutes the life-dream of the man who wills, we see that peace that is higher than all reason, that ocean-like calmness of the spirit, that deep tranquility, that unshakable confidence and serenity, whose mere selection in the countenance, as depicted by Raphael and Correggio, is a complete and certain gospel. Only knowledge remains; the will has vanished." -- A. Schopenhauer, "The World as Will and Representation"
how have your own musical tastes change through the years?
Mainly they've broadened. I still like heavy music, but my CD collection is pretty eclectic. Around 1987, we realized that there was a revolution happening in music that was being led by bands like Jane's Addiction, Fishbone, Faith No More, the Chili Peppers, Mr. Bungle, Soundgarden, etc. Together with Wehrmacht on tour, we would get everybody from both bands on stage and play "Fight for your right" by Beastie Boys. People tripped on that because it was the last thing they expected.
do you think the underground exists, still?
I do. It's just that the underground has much more exposure now than it ever did before the advent of the internet. There is some real irony here. In 1985, it was hard to get any information on new bands outside of the mainstream. Now, there's so much goddamn information available on every band imaginable, good and bad, that you couldn't process it all in three lifetimes.
some would say, as wagner did, that music is a form of paint one uses to create art (narrative, descriptive or poetic works, normally in structure); others would say that music provides art within itself and has no correspondence to a more generalized "artisticness."
Both points of view are correct. It all depends on how you define and perceive "art". And that, of course, is a very personal distinction. Wagner and his contemporaries came from a much more rigid time in music history, which required a very strict adherence to form and theory. Imagine what those guys could have come up with had they been given complete musical freedom.
do you see cryptic slaughter's lyrics as having more of an aspect of the political, or as being social commentary?
Whenever we addressed a political figure or situation, I think that inherently, it becomes social commentary. For instance, when we bitched about Reagan, it was because he was making decisions that were affecting our lives. Political agendas, no matter how convoluted, eventually have a direct effect on the population. Of course, we were great about complaining, but offered very little in the way of solutions. But what do you expect from four young punks?
you said "Around 1987, we realized that there was a revolution happening in music that was being led by bands like Jane's Addiction, Fishbone, Faith No More, the Chili Peppers, Mr. Bungle, Soundgarden, etc." - after some research, i am guessing this means a funk/rap revolution in music. do you think this revolution is still ongoing?
Actually, I was referring more to the punk ethics employed by those bands. They all have roots in the underground and, against all odds, managed to break into the mainstream with varying degrees of success. Let's not forget, popular music in the early to mid 80's was abysmal. It was all about Richard Marx, Kaja Goo Goo, and an endless array of butt rock bands. Jane's, FNM, etc. were innovators and the driving force behind turning the tide. There was an enormous amount of creativity and risk taking in this respect from 1987-1992. And at the time, it was truly inspiring because it felt like the rest of the world finally got hip, and that meant that anything was possible for the rest of us. I should probably broaden my list by adding some more very influential bands; Ministry, Voi Vod, Primus, Butthole Surfers, Rollins Band, The Pixies, and it goes on and on. It's also important to note that these bands made their impact on their own terms. They didn't change for the masses, the masses came to them.
how do you describe the music of cryptic slaughter, and do you assign it to any subgenres (thrash, crossover, metalcore)?
I still like the original tag line I came up with in 1985, "Hardcore Thrash". Pretty good marketing for an eighteen year old. It's simple, yet it tells the story.
how has this revolution changed our perceptions and expectations of music as a whole?
It effected me greatly, and certainly had an impact on music as a whole, because it was really more than just a fusion of metal/funk/rap/punk and whatever else. A new musical paradigm was created, one in which bands were no longer confined to specific categories. This, in turn, forced a shift in general perception that allowed for much more artistic freedom. The audience came to expect bands to be more multi-faceted and eclectic. It changed music forever.
if you could do it all over again, what would you change about your discography?
Well, I'd like to re-record the first three records. I was never happy with how any of them sounded, especially "Stream of Consciousness." And there are certain songs that I absolutely can't listen to, like Hypocrite. I realize that it's probably sacrilege for me to think these thoughts out loud. We really didn't know anything about recording or production, so we basically just plugged in and played. Maybe that was part of the charm.
two rumors: that your albums were to be re-released by a pennsylvania label, and that the new album will approximate "speedcore" or crustcore - can you tell me anything about these and their degrees of veracity?
The plan at this time is to re-issue the first two individually, both with the original artwork. For bonus tracks, we will include the demo, along with a substantial amount of live and rehearsal material, most of which has never been heard outside of our circle of friends. Regarding the new material, I'm really happy with what we've written, but I have no idea which category it will fall into. We were always a band that people could never agree on anyway, in terms of genre, and I don't expect that to change now. It's fast, brutal, and angry.
how did the members of cryptic slaughter meet and come together?
We all played soccer, and had all been playing for years. That's the truth. If not for the the American Youth Soccer Association, there would not have been a Cryptic Slaughter. Bill and I went on to both play for the same high school team, although not at the same time. I met Scott and Bill through a guy named Adam Scott who was actually one of the original members of the band. I used to give Adam guitar lessons and he was younger than me by a couple of years. He told me he knew a drummer through soccer. So when we first started jamming in the summer of 84', I had just turned 17, Adam was 15, and Scott was 14 & 1/2. We stank on ice, but just finding other pepole into the same music back then was so rare that we bonded pretty quickly. Bill, another one of Adam's soccer buddies, joined up after school started that Fall. We steadily got better, and played a lot of covers. I remeber that we did Ace of Spades, Aggresive Perfector, Welcome to Hell, and City Baby Attacked by Rats fairly well. Adam's parents, who were both teachers, began to put a lot of pressure on him to quit. They were just looking out for him. but he started to miss rehearsals so we kicked him out and became a three piece. Rob (who was not a soccer player) came into the fold about a year later, two months or so before we recorded Convicted. We didn't even know him, but it worked out better than any of us could have imagined. Rob's playing and songwriting had a huge impact on improving our sound.
do revolutions in music like the one you describe exist until they get mainstreamed, and then somehow get consumed? or are they ongoing?
Everything gets ruined when too many people find out about it. But you enjoy it while it lasts. Once there's a "new sound", every major label tries to jump on the bandwagon. That kind of over-saturation and dumbing down of the music is what kills originality. And what's worse, you've got these copy cat bands that emerge in an attempt to cash in. Remember how many Nirvana wanna-be's there were? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having influences, but when you're gearing your music towards what you think will be the next big thing, you've lost sight of what's important. Take Faith No More's example. They had a huge hit with The Real Thing, and then proceeded to turn their backs on commercialism in favor of following their instincts.
was "stream of consciousness" a live or studio live album, or did it acquire its deliciously noisy production another way?
It was recorded in an abandoned beer vat, previously owned by Pabst Blue Ribbon. No shit. It was basically a wherehouse. That record actually sounded a lot better before it was mastered. My buddy Jason, Cryptic's only real roadie, recently foud a test pressing for Sream that Rob had given him fourteen years ago. As is typical, it had a blank label with a section for comments. And what Rob had written summed it up with two words; "IT SUCKS". Don't get me wrong, I think the songs on that record are by far the best we ever wrote as a band, but none of us were happy with the production. And for all intents and purposes, by the time that record was released, we were already broken up. An interesting footnote, also thanks to Jason; we have a rehearsal tape of those songs that sounds better than the record, including a tune that was never released. We want to have it released with the re-issues.
on the metal history page (http://www.anus.com/metal/about/history.html) metal is grouped into several waves, based on what worldview they had because of historical events current to the time of each wave. do you see a difference in the musical approach between bands of members born in approx. 1968, 1974, 1982 and 1986?
Oh yeah, people from different eras grew up in different worlds. I came up in the laid back 70's when pot was decriminalized (thank you, Jimmy Carter) and sex couldn't kill you. Then, just as I was ready to start having some of that fun, along comes the "Just Say No" Reagan years and AIDS. And this was also when the Cold War got really ugly and the threat of nuclear war loomed large. I was confused as fuck. And pissed. Someone born in 74' would probably tell you about their fear of being drafted into the Persian Gulf War. But I think another reason for the difference in approach is simply the desire to do something unique. the same thing over and over again gets old, so music has to grow and evolve.
some musical thinkers claim to be able to visualize music as shapes or patterns, and from there conceptualize the song as an aesthetic object. how do you conceptualize sound, or is it a conscious process at all?
I tend to experience music more in terms of colors, but then again, I've eaten more acid than most people! For me, writing music is about intuition. There are no rules or perameters or formulas. It's either good or it's not, and you have to be objective enough to tell the difference. Because even the greats have written crap, but were smart enough to recognize it as such.
what do you think of the overall prospects for humanity given the state of our current treatment of our environment and selves?
Well, humanity will be going away, possibly within the next couple of hundred years. I believe that we're too far gone now to change our ways enough to make a signifigant difference. Some of us will probably take off for another planet so we can begin the cycle all over again. But after we leave, the Earth will eventually heal itself. Throughout the millenia, it's been through a lot worse than humanity.
what was the best part about being in cryptic slaughter during the innovative days of 1980s thrash?
The high point was the many many friends we made. I got to know people from all over the world, and I was lucky enough to experience a lot of great music.
what future directions do you see opening for people wanting to create loud, heavy, violent music? do you think the ideals that make one wish to make such music have changed, or do you see the impetus as emotional?
Music is accessable in way now that we couldn't have imagined in 1986. Back then, before the internet and MP3's, kids in Nebraska had a hell of a time even finding Cryptic records. Even in L.A., I couldn't find our records half the time. With the software available for home recording, there really are no limits. You just have to be motivated and creative in the art of self promotion. I'm sure the reasons vary depending on the person, but at the core it's always driven by emotion. That goes for all forms of music.
was it difficult to start a band and make it successful at such a young age? i believe you were 17 when "money talks" came out.
I had actually just turned twenty when Money Talks was released in July, 87'. Scott, if I recall correctly, was seventeen and a half. It wasn't difficult at all because we had no idea what we were doing. We didn't have anyone telling us what to do or what not to do, which is both good and bad. At the time, I don't know that we necessarily considered ourselves successful. We saw bands like Suicidal Tendencies as being successful. we were just happy to have a an outlet to create.
do young people today face a different world than young people of previous generations? how will this affect their music and the ideas they associate with the sounds they are making?
Young people most assuredly face a different world, and the world at present seems to be changing more rapidly than ever before. As a result, any feeling of stability that existed previously is now deteriorating. I don't think anyone can accurately predict how this will affect how music is written and played. It wouldn't surprise me, however, if it turns out to be pretty fuckin' grim.
how did you learn to play guitar?
I took guitar lessons for years from the same guy, a studio musician. He was mainly concerned with teaching me advanced rythyms and chord structures that are most closely identified with jazz and music theory.I took music theory in high school and college as well. It's funny how I put so much energy into learning "the rules" of music, just to turn around and break them all.
from who/where did the idea for the cover of "money talks" originate?
It came primarily from the artist, Jeff Harp, who also played guitar for Final Conflict. We gave him a lot of freedom, and he created quite a statement of the time. That cover got us on Tipper Gore's list, and it wouldn't surprise me if the F.B.I. opened a file on us around the same time. They've always kept a close eye on politically-minded musicians.
santa monica has always seemed to me to be a hyper-accelerated version of america in transition. did it influence the topics of early cryptic slaughter songs?
I'm sure it did, although indirectly. Santa Monica was a pretty ideal setting in which to grow up. I spent a lot of my youth on the beach as well as the soccer field. Much of S.M. is very rich, but I come from a middle class background. No place is perfect, but we had it better than many kids. By the time we started doing Cryptic, we had begun to realize that the world around us left a lot to be desired.
do you work on music full time? family?
I wish I could do music full time, but alas, I work 40 hours a week like most people. I'm married and have a son who will be four years old soon. So I can't afford to be an irresponsible slacker musician anymore. But I guarantee you that I rode that train for as long as I possibly could.
do people ever beg you for re-releases of the cryptic slaughter albums?
Not really, but I guess the fact that people were paying between $100-$200 on Ebay for our early CD's could be constued as a form of begging.
now that the band has reformed, what do you aim to create in a different musical scene and perhaps style?
What we're doing now is pretty over the top in terms of speed and heaviness. I don't know that we're breaking any new ground, but we are attempting to improve on what we helped to create way back when. And we're setting the bar very high for all aspects from song writing to production.
do you watch television?
I do, but not a whole lot. Through the influence of my son. our TV is usually set on the Cartoon Network. I'm absolutely addicted to the Sopranos and I usually still watch Letterman and Conan. One of my all time favs was Mystery Science Theater 3000, which finally ended it's run after twelve years.
what do you think will be the effect of mp3 files and file sharing in a music industry controlled by a few titans, but with many smaller labels and distros?
I think that Napster and the like was a good thing for music. But it was especially crucial to the relatively unknown bands because it helped to get their music out there. Back in 1985, what held the underground together was a network of hardcore tape traders. They circulated hundreds of live shows and demos and helped bands like Cryptic get on the map. No record stores would carry a demo, even if you could somehow get it distributed. Many fans obtained our tapes by trading through the mail, and of course didn't pay us for them. But the free publicity was well worth whatever we lost in short term profits. It got a buzz going, and pretty soon we were getting contacted from bands, labels, and fans who otherwise never would have heard of us. As far as major labels go, they've been bending over their bands and the fans for decades now so I've got no sympathy whatsoever. And besides, when I was a kid, I always bought the records I really liked and borrowed the rest from my friends and taped them. It's the same principal. If you want it but don't want to pay for it, you can always get it somehow.
you said, "What we're doing now is pretty over the top in terms of speed and heaviness" - how can these things be increased in music? if you could describe more of your new music, that would be great.
I didn't mean to imply that we're going to come along and redefine fast and heavy music. I just wanted to get the point across that this is not going to be "Speak Your Peace, Part ll". Don't get me wrong, I love that record, but it's not where we're at now. Our new stuff combines blast beats with good rythymic structure and it's not too complicated. It's paced well with a definite emphasis on speed.
catch-all "did i miss anything?" and "anything you'd like to add?" question - if there is any information in those categories you would like to see published in this interview, please fill in now.
Thanks to everyone for the continued support and interest after so many years. Please contact us if you want to be on our e-mail list. And thanks to SRP for probably the most comprehensive interview I've ever done.
"[This] goes for writers and thinkers: if they resist the predominant use of time today, they are not only predestined to disappear, but they must also contribute to the making of a 'sanitary cordon' isolating themselves. In the shelter of this cordon, their destruction is supposed to be able to be put off for a while. But they 'buy' this brief and vain delay by modifying their way of thinking and writing in such a way that their works become more or less communicable, exchangeable; in a word, commercializable. But the exchange, the buying and selling of ideas and words, does not fail to contribute, contradictorily to the 'final solution' of the problem: how to write, how to think? I mean that they contribute to making even more hegemonic the great rule of controlled time. It follows that public space, Öffentlichkeit, in these conditions, stops being the space for experiencing, testing and affirming the state of mind open to the event, and in which the mind seeks to elaborate an idea of that state itself, especially under the sign of the 'new.' Public space today is transformed into a market of cultural commodities, in which 'the new' has become an additional source of surplus-value." -- J.-F. Lyotard, "The Inhuman"
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