Science is the new religion
05 06 12 - 10:26
Scepticism towards religious authorities may be a useful turn of mind. But what of those who speak for humanity, who represent themselves as the special representatives of the species and claim the authority of science for their pronouncements regarding the human good? - Literary Review
I think religion is an attitude to any specific topic. E.g. "I believe this, therefore all data must conform to my personal viewpoint." I see it most clearly in the democratic egalitarians.
36 comments
I believe religion is an attitude to any specific topic... like the attitude of believing science is the new religion!
Hope the irony isn't lost on you. Franny - 05-06-’12 22:33
Hope the irony isn't lost on you. Franny - 05-06-’12 22:33
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ANUS telling us not to have religious attitudes. Wow.
"I have faith in the religion that killing everyone under 120 IQ will bring us salvation and lead us to heaven."
Of course, much in the same way that a terrorist will bomb civilians to bring about a religious republic, the means unjustify the ends, and the ends were already shitty and unrealistic to begin with.
If you don't act civilised, you won't get civilised. Bent Cuntens - 07-06-’12 10:15
"I have faith in the religion that killing everyone under 120 IQ will bring us salvation and lead us to heaven."
Of course, much in the same way that a terrorist will bomb civilians to bring about a religious republic, the means unjustify the ends, and the ends were already shitty and unrealistic to begin with.
If you don't act civilised, you won't get civilised. Bent Cuntens - 07-06-’12 10:15
"I see it most clearly in the democratic egalitarians. "
Of course you do. Because those are the people you disagree with. Confirmation bias and all that. If you looked hard at the people you agree with, you'd see it just as much there. You'd think nihilists would be less partisan. - 07-06-’12 14:20
Of course you do. Because those are the people you disagree with. Confirmation bias and all that. If you looked hard at the people you agree with, you'd see it just as much there. You'd think nihilists would be less partisan. - 07-06-’12 14:20
"If you looked hard at the people you agree with, you’d see it just as much there."
No, I wouldn't, and neither would he. Groups of people differ, and the attitudes they share are different also. It is precisely what you are implying that is the democratic egalitarian thing to do, which seems logical becase we're all human, right? Yet due to natural selection there must be differences between members of a single species, so that when the conditions change, those that are, by accident, more fit, will survive, and others will die out. That is how a new species is slowly being born! It is because of that that we are dissimilar, but aren't we dissimilar in mind also? And don't people group themselves according to how their minds work rather than bodies? Or do you find someone attractive exclusively because of their body? Or suitable for a friend because he or she has the same hair color as you do?
So no, the people the author of this post agrees with are themselves fundamentally different people than those you agree with, he couldn't see what you said no matter how hard he tried, and not in the same amount. Franz K. (Email ) - 08-06-’12 04:48
No, I wouldn't, and neither would he. Groups of people differ, and the attitudes they share are different also. It is precisely what you are implying that is the democratic egalitarian thing to do, which seems logical becase we're all human, right? Yet due to natural selection there must be differences between members of a single species, so that when the conditions change, those that are, by accident, more fit, will survive, and others will die out. That is how a new species is slowly being born! It is because of that that we are dissimilar, but aren't we dissimilar in mind also? And don't people group themselves according to how their minds work rather than bodies? Or do you find someone attractive exclusively because of their body? Or suitable for a friend because he or she has the same hair color as you do?
So no, the people the author of this post agrees with are themselves fundamentally different people than those you agree with, he couldn't see what you said no matter how hard he tried, and not in the same amount. Franz K. (Email ) - 08-06-’12 04:48
@Franz K. You have excessive pessimism about the ability of people to see flaws in arguments whose conclusions they agree with. Responsible, mature thinkers are able to do this, and do it all the time. I for one (not saying I'm necessarily a mature thinker, but I try) have found plenty of crappy arguments for liberal positions, and I call them on it.
It does require a degree of discipline and suspension of emotion, but I would think the ANUS people were all for that.
However, you may be right about you in particular, and the OP in particular. Perhaps *you too* are indeed incapable of looking hard and objectively at the writings and opinions of people you agree with. But I was inviting the OP to try. Try it. - 08-06-’12 09:48
It does require a degree of discipline and suspension of emotion, but I would think the ANUS people were all for that.
However, you may be right about you in particular, and the OP in particular. Perhaps *you too* are indeed incapable of looking hard and objectively at the writings and opinions of people you agree with. But I was inviting the OP to try. Try it. - 08-06-’12 09:48
I do see flaws in the thinking of both the people I agree with and people I do not agree with, moreover, I often find flaws in my own reasoning, and consider searching for flaws in my own reason to be extremely fruitful if the flaws are then removed!
I indeed have excessive pessimism, but it is not confined to any single thing, unfortunately. I would not be a nihilist if I weren't a pessimist to begin with, or better to say: hadn't I developed pessimism from observing the world around me. I doubt an optimist would even consider nihilsm, and I do not blame him in any way, he is different from me.
I have to say I appreciate you not attacking me. It's a rarity in real life and even more on the Internet to be civilised!
I just wanted to say that, from personal evidence, it was exactly becoming aware of the flaws of what I agreed with that made me lose my faith, my religion, morality and meaning. It's a descent, not an enlightenment, and I have no more pillars I could hold on to, just an endless void in which I keep falling, without end. That is the point of Nietzsche's overman, he can be a nihilist but be prefectly fine about it. Humans need lies! Maybe that's one reason why we forgive flaws in the thoughts we agree with: imagine rejecting everyone because of their flaws. Doesn't everyone have flaws in reasoning? Franz K. (Email ) - 09-06-’12 02:01
I indeed have excessive pessimism, but it is not confined to any single thing, unfortunately. I would not be a nihilist if I weren't a pessimist to begin with, or better to say: hadn't I developed pessimism from observing the world around me. I doubt an optimist would even consider nihilsm, and I do not blame him in any way, he is different from me.
I have to say I appreciate you not attacking me. It's a rarity in real life and even more on the Internet to be civilised!
I just wanted to say that, from personal evidence, it was exactly becoming aware of the flaws of what I agreed with that made me lose my faith, my religion, morality and meaning. It's a descent, not an enlightenment, and I have no more pillars I could hold on to, just an endless void in which I keep falling, without end. That is the point of Nietzsche's overman, he can be a nihilist but be prefectly fine about it. Humans need lies! Maybe that's one reason why we forgive flaws in the thoughts we agree with: imagine rejecting everyone because of their flaws. Doesn't everyone have flaws in reasoning? Franz K. (Email ) - 09-06-’12 02:01
Indeed they do. That's why I find the OP's statement rather vacuous.
As for nihilism, don't forget that just because someone makes a bad argument for conclusion X, doesn't mean conclusion X is false. It may still be true, just waiting for a better argument.
I myself am intellectually a nihilist, but personally a moral realist. That is, I recognize that there's no objective basis for morality, values, or good vs. evil, but in my personal, social, and political life I suspend disbelief and behave as if certain actions are indeed immoral and others are moral. It's the only way I personally can live.
Finally, as for pessimism, I find both pessimism and optimism untenable, at least at the global level. Both good things and bad things happen; if that weren't so, we wouldn't recognize the difference. I prefer to be a realist and try to see things as no better nor worse than they really are.
I am sometimes pessimistic (or optimistic) about my own life, but that's different. Keep finding flaws! Even in nihilism! - 09-06-’12 15:58
As for nihilism, don't forget that just because someone makes a bad argument for conclusion X, doesn't mean conclusion X is false. It may still be true, just waiting for a better argument.
I myself am intellectually a nihilist, but personally a moral realist. That is, I recognize that there's no objective basis for morality, values, or good vs. evil, but in my personal, social, and political life I suspend disbelief and behave as if certain actions are indeed immoral and others are moral. It's the only way I personally can live.
Finally, as for pessimism, I find both pessimism and optimism untenable, at least at the global level. Both good things and bad things happen; if that weren't so, we wouldn't recognize the difference. I prefer to be a realist and try to see things as no better nor worse than they really are.
I am sometimes pessimistic (or optimistic) about my own life, but that's different. Keep finding flaws! Even in nihilism! - 09-06-’12 15:58
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