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Nihilism, Futurist Traditionalism and Conservationism

The Painful Paradox of Civilization

31 05 11 - 14:33

When a stench "follows" you, you check your pants.

When failure of a pernicious and pervasive type follows you, you check your assumptions.

The paradox of civilization is this: the more successful a civilization, the more it protects and subsidizes the idiots who will destroy it.


It would be a major accomplishment if mankind were to combine a controlled technology with the preservation of Earth. Not only a major accomplishment but a miracle. There are too many humans and everywhere we go to seek peace and tranquility, a hundred others have gone there, too. There was a time when even scientists spoke of the "wonder and glory" of the universe, but we have reverted completely to a mechanistic view, relying on technology to solve every problem which, ironically, it has created in the first place. Can there still be stretches of open land natural wonder alongside hot water and refrigeration? Orion


Here is what you are trained to say: "No, there's no way the two can coexist."

The implication of that is, of course, "let's just keep doing what we're doing, because there's no hope we can change."

I submit another viewpoint: it's not technology, but democracy and mass culture, that does this.

Intelligent people tend to breed less. If they keep the less-intelligent people in check, those don't breed recklessly.

But give those people the vote... well, to them money is magic, and power is magic, and it should all be free. So there can be more of them, of course.

The pile of humans bubbles upward, grows huge...

We can't say no to anyone, because we'd be crushing their hopes and dreams.

In the process we polluted everything, destroy innocence, remove beauty, and make clustered, crowded, filthy, dog-eat-dog cities.

And then we have destroyed our dreams.

29 comments

Your Mom
Fuck off, Dave. Your Mom - 31-05-’11 18:14
fallen bard
Central thesis of ANUS? fallen bard - 31-05-’11 18:16
Dave's Mom
Just getting a head start. Dave's Mom - 31-05-’11 20:03
Dave
Sure maybe a social program doesn't work out as expected but we try, try again for our fellow woman, fellow man, and so on. But that is hardly civilization ruin.

Nobody can prove there are idiots out to destroy civilization. It is as if the author tries to objectively prove intelligence and no your particular cultural biases loaded into the IQ testing is not an objective standard.

Also, where is the evidence that anything has been destroyed in your society? Silence as expected.

Maybe this will be my last comment since nobody is able to respond to my reasoning. I mean what's the use? Dave - 31-05-’11 20:23
Henry
@Dave

perhaps there isn't any! you're hardwired into the modern world and seek to protect it at any rate. Your mind won't look for validity in any of the opinions expressed here, you're only aim is to try and disprove it. Perhaps it was a stimulus for you at some point; the arguments were fun and seemed to keep your own opinions in check. But you can't seriously believe people here are just going to "see the light" and accept the modern world because of your constant and 'infallible' reasoning/arguing. Henry - 31-05-’11 21:29
Graveland
"Maybe this will be my last comment since nobody is able to respond to my reasoning."...Haaaahahahahaha! I highly doubt this will be your last comment, fuck-sack. Good one. "Also, where is the evidence that anything has been destroyed in your society?"...Google it. Look out the window. Leave your dorm. Whatever. Divorce rates through the roof, ditto teenage pregnancy, infidelity, drug abuse, etc, etc. Let's not forget the destruction of the environment, which is perhaps a much more serious and long term problem than any modern day social issue. "Nobody can prove there are idiots out to destroy civilization."...The article didn't say they were OUT to do it, it said they ARE doing it, there is a difference ( I can split hairs too!) How? See the aforementioned social issues I just listed, which have only gotten worse since the 60's (the first full mass expression of your worldview)...On that note, here's this gem of understanding and "reasoning", "Sure maybe a social program doesn’t work out as expected but we try, try again for our fellow woman, fellow man, and so on. But that is hardly civilization ruin."...What have social programs done except help the few who are strong enough to do something about their (usually self-inflicted) personal problems/addictions and give a cushion to that majority that chooses to do nothing for themselves except live off of the tax-payer? Ruining of civilization, or whatever you want to call it, is a slow process that can justifiably be called rot. It is not immediately obvious to most people and is VERY obvious to those with the foresight and life experience (and I.Q.). Idiots destroying society is more a consequence of their idiocy than a concerted effort...they're too stupid for that. Having bloated, over-generous welfare states that enable them doesn't help either. Meet enough people who openly or openly admit to milking these social programs and you start to look at it as maybe not being such a good thing after all. If a social program does not work, it should stop... You don't have to prove intelligence, Dave, usually you can just tell. Turn on the T.V. sometime. Anything intelligent going on there? More importantly, who is it that this bullshit caters to?... Also, why didn't you answer my questions on the other posts about why you criticize this site for giving opinion as fact when you do that very thing yourself. Where's YOUR proof...of anything. Way to say nobody is responding, as again, you too are doing this very thing. Graveland - 31-05-’11 22:18
Dave's Dad
Listen to your mother! Dave's Dad - 31-05-’11 22:26
Dave
Graveland, that is just a load of the usual rubbish from right wing web sites.

It doesn't sound like the world I live in.

Here is one for you for closer to home. http://articles.cnn.com/2010-01-13/us/poll.black.progress_1_whites-blacks-race-relations?_s=PM:US

Yes we can all just get along. Dave - 01-06-’11 14:31
Graveland
Dave...I don't read right-wing web sites. How about you answer the question. Graveland - 01-06-’11 15:05
Yep, Dave's just a troll...
"Maybe this will be my last comment since nobody is able to respond to my reasoning."

Ugh....we could have a discussion if you would actually, you know, ADDRESS OUR CRITICISMS instead of ignoring them. Yep, Dave's just a troll... - 01-06-’11 19:57
LOL YAY!!!!!!
Toooooooo EXSTREMEMEMEMEMEMEMEMMEMEMEMEMEMEME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veKglhYrLTA LOL YAY!!!!!! - 01-06-’11 20:10
Dave
There is nothing to address. Democratic majority consensus says relations are improving.

In other words, the social situation is coming around at last. Differences are on the way out. The democratic will affords welcome to all to live their dreams in the more affluent places in the world. Borders of many kinds are essentially an invisible form of oppression.

What sort of monstrous person would deny people born into terrible circumstances their one chance at a good life?

Nobody says anything is falling apart because of 'idiots' which is a social invention not an objective term, except a few right wingers, xenophobics and the usual fascists. Dave - 01-06-’11 20:37
Dave
ecocide is fuckin badass bitches. we gonna clownrape that dumb head nature. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh4c1hu6Glc&feature=related P.U. this guy stinks on ice, such a buzzkill! oh and graveland you a lil gay boy yo, I don't even have to read your comment, I can just take one glance at it and stamp "WRONG" on it and then go in the bathroom, strip, look in the mirror and verbally reassure myself of what a powerful deity I am.

I am the one....I am God. Dave - 02-06-’11 01:14
RE: Dave
"What sort of monstrous person would deny people born into terrible circumstances their one chance at a good life?"

Those who desire a better future for humanity overall rather than individual happiness. Individual happiness and desires do no matter in the grand scheme of things. Would I sacrifice myself to ensure this? In a heart beat. RE: Dave - 02-06-’11 09:45
Beneficiary of modern social programs
uck foff,, d!Ave Beneficiary of modern social programs - 02-06-’11 14:11
Dave
You fools, there's no way that our present state of affairs could be anything but a stage in the perpetual ascent towards a global State founded upon the brotherhood of man!

What's that? I only believe that because of the pervasive influence that the philosophies of Hegel, August Comte, and Herbert Spencer exert upon our society's weltanshauung? But they were all infallible geniuses! Even the thought of them making a logical error is the height of reprehensibility.

Huh? Their theories were based upon historical inaccuracies, pseudoscience, and wishful thinking? Utter blasphemy! You fascists always seek to impede the march to absolute equality, regardless of the nonsense that we 'egalitarians' spew all the while! Dave - 02-06-’11 18:38
Answer the question
Honestly Dave, how on earth do you think that our collective health has improved when so many are obese? Do you have even an inkling of the statistics? It's an epidemic! "Prosperity" is making the Western world (and much of the Eastern) a mass of walking abscesses! Answer the question - 02-06-’11 18:42
I know this was from an older thread, but still.
And another thing; why haven't you acknowledged the fact that Christianity was NOT freely embraced by the European pagans, let alone many of the other peoples that it was forced upon? Because that would falsify your narrative of perpetual progress? I know this was from an older thread, but still. - 02-06-’11 18:45
Dave
The last comment signed 'Dave' was not my comment. Why is someone else using my handle to reply here?

"And another thing; why haven’t you acknowledged the fact that Christianity was NOT freely embraced by the European pagans, let alone many of the other peoples that it was forced upon?"

I'm sure Europe is just overflowing with druid groves and temples to Zeus about now. What do you think?

"Those who desire a better future for humanity overall rather than individual happiness."

This is a fallacy. How does individual happiness oppose a better future for humanity? You need to rethink your approach and quit referring to anti democratic literature. Dave - 02-06-’11 19:11
exercise your right of free speech and defend your views
Dave, are you autistic? exercise your right of free speech and defend your views - 02-06-’11 19:32
arguing with a broken record (sigh)
"I’m sure Europe is just overflowing with druid groves and temples to Zeus about now. What do you think?" That's the point, it used to be. Blame the problems of the third world on colonialism and then ignore the fact that the spread of monotheism essentially took the same form. arguing with a broken record (sigh) - 02-06-’11 20:01
type, rinse, repeat
"How does individual happiness oppose a better future for humanity?" How does it support a better future for humanity? Are you saying that materialistic lifestyles make one happy? It does not. You need to rethink your approach and say something of substance. type, rinse, repeat - 02-06-’11 20:06
RE:RE:Dave
"This is a fallacy. How does individual happiness oppose a better future for humanity? You need to rethink your approach and quit referring to anti democratic literature."

It does this because it allows individuals to act in their own self-interest at the expense of nature, society and of course our species. Essentially, what I am criticizing is utilitarianism, an action is taken depending on whether or not it brings the most happiness to most people. This sort of logic lets us down cut entire forests. Because we think, well the CEO will get rich so he will be happy, logging provides many jobs, the industries we will put in place of the forest will provide many jobs and make people happy and hence there is no reason why we can't do it under this system of thought.

If a person has severe genetic disorders, if it makes them happy to have five offspring all with an incurable genetic disease then it's a-okay if we only consider individual happiness. Not to mention the exponential effect it will have.

If someone wants to live on welfare all their lives and it makes them happy then let them right? So they contribute absolutely nothing while the government continues to give them money. They consume resources while providing none.

If someone exists to rape then there's no reason to execute this person it's morally wrong, etc. Even though after ten years in jail he's probably going to be raping some more.

This goes on ad infinitum. There are many other things to blame for de-evolution such as "Might is Right" philosophy/social Darwinism, democracy, Marxism, and Judeo-Christian religions being the main culprits. But I will be wasting more time trying to debate this with you no doubt.

I can suggest several articles which may help you understand these things if you are interested. RE:RE:Dave - 03-06-’11 09:03
Dave
As of now I will stop using right winger and instead use hate winger. Because that is all I can see in your world. Dave - 03-06-’11 16:50
Dave
And all I see is someone who wont debate and refuses to answer a few simple criticisms... Dave - 03-06-’11 19:26
I Have AIDS
"As of now I will stop using right winger and instead use hate winger."

argumentum ad hominem you can't argue with us logically, so you say we all have bad character, hate-filled, etc. without attacking our argument directly.

"And all I see is someone who wont debate and refuses to answer a few simple criticisms…"

Alas, the burden of proof is on he who makes the claim. You can't say you can't disprove my argument therefore it is logical, that's not how an argument proceeds. So you must prove that egalitarianism and democracy are best, not just assume we can't prove you wrong so you are correct.

As well you make the fallacy of argumentum ad nauseam you just keep repeating the same old tired stuff no matter how many times proof to the contrary is shown.

I would go back to my suburban existence with my car, wife, kids, dog, cat and lawn with if were you Dave. Since here you are just wasting valuable time.

As am I funnily enough since of course I am hate-filled and hence wrong. I Have AIDS - 04-06-’11 08:08
Hope that cleared things up
Dave, I'm personally indifferent to the discussion about race and IQ; none of that matters to me. What I am concerned about, though, is your utter refusal to respond to our objections or to admit to your mistakes. For example, you insist that access to nutrition, and as a result, global health, has improved; has it? The statistics suggest otherwise(I know that this isn't a definitive source, but you can easily find more authoritative and reputable studies simply by Google searching): http://www.who.int/research/en/

If you're truly arguing in good faith, you'll at least attempt to look further into this matter. Hope that cleared things up - 04-06-’11 19:35
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