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Nihilism, Futurist Traditionalism and Conservationism

Two concepts from gnosticism

28 12 10 - 07:38

All really influential words get a lowercase version and an uppercase one. I don't know what Gnosticism is, because I'm sure the people who want power are still fighting over the "official" definition, but gnosticism makes two points among others that are quite clear:

(1) If an all-powerful order pervades reality, it is like a fractal or other pattern that repeats on the micro- and macro-levels. This means it is inescapable and pre-dates us; we are manifestations of it, not the other way around. And if the bigger pattern correlates to the smaller, it means that we as parts of it are as persistent as it is, whether as archetypes, incarnates or individuals.

(2) If reality has a source of creation, which we assume is Good, then we must realize that Evil is not only a product of the same, but serves a role toward the maintenance of Good. While this blows our minds, natural metaphors may help: without predators, silly mice outbreed their supply and drown in overpopulation. Without twisted sick pervert criminals, we lose our ability to kill the bad and protect the good.

Were these two thoughts fully assimilated into Christianity, replacing its nihilism (no meaning outside God, a symbol for the whole that by its very nature appears to be a part within the whole; in language, to noun something is to separate it from the rest) which leads to the insane liberalism of Jesus Christ, who died in pain but at least he DID THE RIGHT THING, GOD DAMN IT!, then we might be able to truly enjoy Christianity. Of course, it would be a Manowar version of Christianity, full of war and murder of the "disadvantaged" while the Down's syndrome kids, ignored, starve in burning hovels. But maybe that's the kind of maturity this self-obsessed species needs.

eleven comments

no u
could you please tell us where exactly did you read that "the source of reality's creation is assumed to be Good"? both on wikipedia, and in other books I read, it is quite clear that most of the Gnostic sects viewed the creator of reality, the demiurge, as an Evil force - also, the material cosmos itself was Evil.

Even more, Gnosticism is far from a unified doctrine; it's just a cluster of the main traits that dozens of sects in the first centuries of our era shared. And, from what I can recall, Gnosticism opposes reality (the damned creation of an evil God) to "gnosis" (knowledge), or the esoteric belief system that leads to salvation. no u - 28-12-’10 09:30
Cold Breath of Real Life
Did you just cite Wikipedia as a source? You'll get really confused there. The article addresses the multiple meanings of gnosticism and Gnosticism. Cold Breath of Real Life (Email ) (URL) - 29-12-’10 21:48
no u
wikipedia is correct (at least in the opening paragraph; I didn't read the whole thing), since that dualism was something I had already read about - in real books. this article here seems to err on point 2), like I said, and I want to see an example that proves me wrong. no u - 30-12-’10 01:29
Newr
@"no u"
First of all, discussing history of gnostic thought here is irrelevant - that's why the author issued that "capital letter" disclaimer.
As far as I see, the Good that's spoken of here pertains to the whole of reality, meaning the primal principle which precedes concrete existence. I won't give you a source, but it's not that much of a stretch to assume that all gnostics would agree on the benevolence or at least "rightness" of the Yet-Unmanifest Primordial.
The assessment of whether the manifest world is "good" and a natural reflection of the Divine, or "evil" and a perversion of the ideal order of being, would remain a point of contention between the neoplatonic bunch and hardline anti-Ialdabaothic gnostics, respectfully.
The author is probably rooting for the former. Newr - 30-12-’10 05:07
indontknow
Please flesh out relationship between gnosticism and Manowar Christianity. indontknow (Email ) - 05-01-’11 11:57
Dave
"Without twisted sick pervert criminals, we lose our ability to kill the bad and protect the good."

uh, what?

Are you saying that without a specific type of bad people, we wouldn't learn how to kill other bad people? If so, that's hardly the case.

Or are you saying that if there weren't If there weren't any bad people, we wouldn't know how to kill bad people? Well, If there weren't any bad people, there wouldn't be any *need* to kill bad people, would there?

Either way, it doesn't seem like you have a real point here.

I still don't see an argument for your "meta-good" theory. We call things bad for a reason: we don't want them. We may acknowledge that we'll never fully get rid of all bad things, but that doesn't make them any less *bad*, or even mean that they are good by any definition.

Even if we accept a ends-justify-the-means position, we're still not saying that the bad things we do to achieve good ends are not still bad, or that they're good in any way, meta- or otherwise. We're simply saying that the overall result of our actions is a good situation. Dave (Email ) - 07-01-’11 17:51
Leb
I had problems with that part too Dave, but I think he meant like, if you grow up enduring fist fights in your childhood/adolescence you will later be more experienced when you face the adult world and phyisical threat happens.

If there was no phyisical threat in your town or anywhere in a great distance, but then came a guy from a even greater distance threatening the people physically, they would die.

But I agree the statement is confusing. Leb (Email ) - 11-01-’11 10:56
text
http://metahistory.org/gnostique/archonfiles/AlienDreaming.php

an interesting text about gnosticism text (Email ) (URL) - 11-01-’11 15:53
Norse
To Dave: I think you missed his point, man. Without parasitism and criminality as a part of societal ills, people would grow weak and stupid, in a general sense. It's similar to having the Huns at the gate at all times to strengthen your killing arm and to keep your shit in perspective. Without it, we're all petty, Jersey Shore whitebreads that get shocked when someone drops the F-bomb at the local bakesale. What the dude is saying is that without the constant "pruning" effect that criminals have on a civilization, said civilization wouldn't be able to handle any of the horrors the world forces upon us daily. Criminals keep shit real and desensitize us so that we don't piss our pants when we have to defend ourselves from other threats. Anything, to a reasonable degree, has a purpose in society. Word to the psychopaths out there. Keep it real. (I will still choke you to death, if you try to murder my family, so uh...thanks for that.) Norse - 02-02-’11 18:10
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