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Eleison
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« on: October 23, 2009, 07:59:06 PM »

Nowadays, when people are taught classical theory, they are taught about harmonic progressions. It's a fairly dry and academic pursuit.  Back in the era when classical music was actually written, all composers were schooled in renaissance style counterpoint: that is, the way in which melodies fit together.  Most people's idea of a melody is an elaboration on a progression of harmonic notes, whereas in reality it is the only spontaneous part of a composition.

In my view, melody is a sequence of notes which manifests something the artist wishes to express, and this may be disguised by a harmonic progression, meaning that a melody does not have to be a 'tune'.  Every great composition has an underlying melodic structure which is its 'soul'; sometimes this is immediately evident, such as in Gregorian chant, Indian classical music, or even Mozart; in other works, it can be disguised either by polyphony proper, by harmonic notes (romantic music), or through the repetition of small sequences (riffs). 

For me, the study of counterpoint has been far more engaging than the study of harmony, because the melodic integrity of the music gives birth to its theory.  I recommend Gradus ad Parnassum (the counterpoint textbook used by Bach, Mozart and Beethoven) to anyone interested in learning to compose polyphonic music.  This sort of technique could be applied to metal, with some modification.  This is more realistic than trying to include classical harmonic principles in metal, where the distortion would get in the way.
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Conservationist
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2009, 08:26:41 PM »

Back in the era when classical music was actually written all composers were schooled in renaissance style counterpoint, that is, the way in which melodies fit together. 

 Most people's idea of a melody is an elaboration on a progression of harmonic notes, whereas in reality it is the only spontaneous part of a composition.  In my view melody is a sequence of notes which manifest something which the artist wishes to express, and this may be disguised by a harmonic progression, meaning that a melody does not have to be a 'tune'.  Every great composition has an underlying melodic structure which is its 'soul', sometimes this is immediately evident, such as in Gregorian chant, Indian classical music, or even Mozart, in other works it can be disguised either by polyphony proper, by harmonic notes (romantic music), or through the repetition of small sequences (riffs). 

For me, the study of counterpoint has been far more engaging than the study of harmony, because the melodic integrity of the music gives birth to its theory.  I recommend Gradus ad Parnassum (the counterpoint textbook used by Bach, Mozart and Beethoven) to anyone interested in learning to compose polyphonic music.  This sort of technique could be applied to metal, with some modification.  This is more realistic than trying to include classical harmonic principles in metal, where the distortion would get in the way.

Candidate for post the of year. The science of phrase is that of death metal; it's similar to melody, in that each phrase creates a mental image and stringing them together produces a narrative form of music.
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Goluf
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« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2009, 10:26:07 PM »

Your facts are wrong, but I think I understand where you are coming from. A guy named Heinrich Schenker codified this fairly radical idea (in a nutshell, harmony comes from counterpoint, not vice versa) about 100 years ago. Check out his books.
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wEEman33
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« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2009, 10:42:10 PM »

Basic guidelines for writing successful counterpoint (I'm sure most of this is covered in the OP's suggested book):

Quote
-- avoid perfect intervals

-- avoid large leaps and skips; favor simple, stepwise motion

-- move upper voices in contrary motion to the bass

-- when one line ends, look for ways to imitate or carry on the line in other voices
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Eleison
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« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2009, 05:26:17 AM »

Your facts are wrong, but I think I understand where you are coming from. A guy named Heinrich Schenker codified this fairly radical idea (in a nutshell, harmony comes from counterpoint, not vice versa) about 100 years ago. Check out his books.

I don't quite follow, which facts are wrong?
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Eleison
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« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2009, 05:30:29 AM »

Basic guidelines for writing successful counterpoint (I'm sure most of this is covered in the OP's suggested book):

Quote
-- avoid perfect intervals

-- avoid large leaps and skips; favor simple, stepwise motion

-- move upper voices in contrary motion to the bass

-- when one line ends, look for ways to imitate or carry on the line in other voices

Just to clarify, perfect intervals are fine as long as they aren't brought about by similar motion, moving to a perfect consonance in contrary or oblique motion is fine provided it doesn't occur too often.  I've heard numerous theories as to why this rule exists, the first is that contrapuntal composers wanted to differentiate themselves from the style of organum, which involves numerous parallel perfect consonances, the other is that the western mind becomes agitated unless there is a sense of constant motion in music.  This latter theory in itself would explain the rapid development of all of the arts for better or worse after the middle ages.
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Conservationist
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 09:07:10 AM »

I stir the fire:

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Quote from: Certif1ed
[DIV]We are talking about bands that use the standard song structure, with extended instrumental sections, rigid and repetitive riffs (mostly quite short and single-phrase - no actual development or progression per se, just a large number of small ideas strung togther and put through various time signatures to make it sound complicated as opposed to truly compositionally complex) - and that includes the quiet bits, which typically waste the opportunity to compose something interesting, and simply break down a short (and normally exceedingly simple) riff into picked chords, with solos that are normally pyrotechnical displays of various techniques, improvisation, or a combination of the two, rather than true compositions (something that stands out a mile to a composition student).[/DIV]

I think this is a good point: song form is what defines progressive rock, and song form + melodic shape and the interplay between the two is what defines classical, which even more than jazz is the influence on progressive rock.

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/metal/assimilation

http://www.anus.com/metal/hall/index.php/topic,7250.0.html

Two useful links: the first is an essay on metal's "narrative" compositional form, the second a description of melody in classical and metal.

With that light in mind, I'd call these the most progressive metal releases:

Gorguts - Obscura
Demilich - Nespithe
Incantation - Onward to Golgotha
Burzum - Burzum/Aske

There's also a wide range of stuff derived from light prog (think: Rush) like Voivod, Supuration, and Obliveon.

Without the narrative construction, and sense of melodic complement, metal is lost. IMHO
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